GR&DF I do thank you for your very kind comments about the lovely ornament that Carol sent me for the Ornament exchange. Thank you all for the nice things you had to say about how Hetty is coming along - she is whipping along at a very good pace.
I did have some questions about Hetty... Carol Z asked about the silks I am using - Yes - they are over dyed Belle Soie silks. The sampler is charted for DMC only and I did like the colour palette, but I like using silk more than cotton, especially on samplers. So I re charted it for BS silk - since there is no direct translation of DMC to BS I used my own judgement and what I liked together coming as close as I could to those charted colours. Siobhan (who does lovely things BTW) mentioned that she hadn't seen this sampler before - it is from The Sampler Company and is an older one I think. Brenda does some lovely things and I have my eye on a couple more pieces from her collection. There where a couple of people that wondered if I ever slept - trust me I turn into a mega lump every night and get quite a bit of sleep, but I also stitch a few hours every evening as I find it very relaxing. Ariadne asked about other ornaments i might have from past exchanges - those will come out of the Exchange baskets and onto my faux feather tree soon - I will get some snaps of the tree decorated so that you all can see the beautiful things I have gotten form so many wonderful stitchers.
Yesterday TCM celebrate Richard Burton's Birthday with some wonderful films - starting off with "The Taming of the Shrew" - 1967 - starring Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor - this is a great version of the Shakespeare play with both Liz and Dick in top form!! This was followed by a favorite flicker of mine "The V.I.P.'s" - 1963 - again starring Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor - this flicker is about a group Jet Set beautiful people stuck in a fogged in London Airport and their various stories. Margaret Rutherford plays the impoverished Duchess of Brighton fro which she won a nest supporting Oscar. The final film of the evening was "Becket" - 1964 - starring Richard Burton as Beckett and Peter O'Toole as Henry II. A great movie that also has in a very small part one of my favorite character actress - Martita Hunt who plays Empress Matilda - Henry II's mother - I would recommend any and all of these films as very superior.
And now to my grumbling - I may be stirring up a hornets nest but this is my blog and I wonder what other stitchers think. What my grumbley bitching is about is how it seems recently - over the past year or so - more and more designers are releasing "kits" or "packs" that include everything chart, linen, floss - and then jack the price up accordingly. Now, I am not complaining that if one is including everything to complete a project that a decent price shouldn't be set - what I am bitching about is that it takes choice away from the stitcher - who one presumes the designer is making the design for anyway. I saw a totally great Christmas "pack" project from a designer that I usually don't care for, but this particular piece really appealed to me. This project was recently released and is another all inclusive project- and priced accordingly. I would rather pay for just the chart and kit it out for myself as there are a few colour choices that the model shows that I do not care for and is why I do not often care for her pieces. As with most of the Stitchers out there I have enough stash to last my lifetime and then some so I will probably never get this project, which is a shame, but I just can not justify paying for a complete project that I will have to then get more floss' to replace the colours I do not care for and a piece of linen I would want to work it on. As with many of the "complete" projects out there - the floss colour choices the designer chooses do not always appeal to me and I would change them any way, but if I am having to pay $35 or more for a single project and then having to switch out and change floss and linen this can run a project into some big bucks and I would think twice about buying it or just skip it all together. Thank goodness for the secondary market of charts on eBay - I have gotten quite a few charts that originally started off as complete and all inclusive projects. This is how I will probably get this chart eventually and in the end who does that help - not the designer, not the shop. Sometimes to acquire a chart one wants that is the only way to circumvent the "kitted" or "prepacked" project. Maybe I am just to independent and don't like being told what to do or how to do it - but I think I know what I like and in the end I can just say it with my dollars and just move on to something else. Off my soapbox - I don't mean to offend anyone and I do acknowledge a designer can do whatever they please, however that is a two edged sward - and as the end consumer I can do what I want to also. One would think in these hard economic times it is shame that with prices going up and up to price oneself out of the market - and don't get me started on these multiple chart projects.
That's about it for today sports fans!! Thank you for stopping by and do come again!!
Take care,
edgar
I did have some questions about Hetty... Carol Z asked about the silks I am using - Yes - they are over dyed Belle Soie silks. The sampler is charted for DMC only and I did like the colour palette, but I like using silk more than cotton, especially on samplers. So I re charted it for BS silk - since there is no direct translation of DMC to BS I used my own judgement and what I liked together coming as close as I could to those charted colours. Siobhan (who does lovely things BTW) mentioned that she hadn't seen this sampler before - it is from The Sampler Company and is an older one I think. Brenda does some lovely things and I have my eye on a couple more pieces from her collection. There where a couple of people that wondered if I ever slept - trust me I turn into a mega lump every night and get quite a bit of sleep, but I also stitch a few hours every evening as I find it very relaxing. Ariadne asked about other ornaments i might have from past exchanges - those will come out of the Exchange baskets and onto my faux feather tree soon - I will get some snaps of the tree decorated so that you all can see the beautiful things I have gotten form so many wonderful stitchers.
Yesterday TCM celebrate Richard Burton's Birthday with some wonderful films - starting off with "The Taming of the Shrew" - 1967 - starring Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor - this is a great version of the Shakespeare play with both Liz and Dick in top form!! This was followed by a favorite flicker of mine "The V.I.P.'s" - 1963 - again starring Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor - this flicker is about a group Jet Set beautiful people stuck in a fogged in London Airport and their various stories. Margaret Rutherford plays the impoverished Duchess of Brighton fro which she won a nest supporting Oscar. The final film of the evening was "Becket" - 1964 - starring Richard Burton as Beckett and Peter O'Toole as Henry II. A great movie that also has in a very small part one of my favorite character actress - Martita Hunt who plays Empress Matilda - Henry II's mother - I would recommend any and all of these films as very superior.
And now to my grumbling - I may be stirring up a hornets nest but this is my blog and I wonder what other stitchers think. What my grumbley bitching is about is how it seems recently - over the past year or so - more and more designers are releasing "kits" or "packs" that include everything chart, linen, floss - and then jack the price up accordingly. Now, I am not complaining that if one is including everything to complete a project that a decent price shouldn't be set - what I am bitching about is that it takes choice away from the stitcher - who one presumes the designer is making the design for anyway. I saw a totally great Christmas "pack" project from a designer that I usually don't care for, but this particular piece really appealed to me. This project was recently released and is another all inclusive project- and priced accordingly. I would rather pay for just the chart and kit it out for myself as there are a few colour choices that the model shows that I do not care for and is why I do not often care for her pieces. As with most of the Stitchers out there I have enough stash to last my lifetime and then some so I will probably never get this project, which is a shame, but I just can not justify paying for a complete project that I will have to then get more floss' to replace the colours I do not care for and a piece of linen I would want to work it on. As with many of the "complete" projects out there - the floss colour choices the designer chooses do not always appeal to me and I would change them any way, but if I am having to pay $35 or more for a single project and then having to switch out and change floss and linen this can run a project into some big bucks and I would think twice about buying it or just skip it all together. Thank goodness for the secondary market of charts on eBay - I have gotten quite a few charts that originally started off as complete and all inclusive projects. This is how I will probably get this chart eventually and in the end who does that help - not the designer, not the shop. Sometimes to acquire a chart one wants that is the only way to circumvent the "kitted" or "prepacked" project. Maybe I am just to independent and don't like being told what to do or how to do it - but I think I know what I like and in the end I can just say it with my dollars and just move on to something else. Off my soapbox - I don't mean to offend anyone and I do acknowledge a designer can do whatever they please, however that is a two edged sward - and as the end consumer I can do what I want to also. One would think in these hard economic times it is shame that with prices going up and up to price oneself out of the market - and don't get me started on these multiple chart projects.
That's about it for today sports fans!! Thank you for stopping by and do come again!!
Take care,
edgar
I agree with you Edgar; I almost NEVER buy kits because I usually don't like the fabric and sometimes don't like the floss. I am almost exclusively using Vikki Clayton silks - reasonably priced and easily converted from DMC.
ReplyDeletewhile we are complaining I am also not falling for the designers whose charts come in pieces - with a separate price for each "piece" - by the time you get all the charts for one design you have spent way more than if you buy a really detailed sampler chart. Am I the only one this bothers?
Oh boy...I'd say you've opened a can of worms. I'm sure you will get lots of opinions from both sides and here's mine....I agree with you totally!!! Thank you for saying so in black and white :) I have not purchased so many lovely patterns because they were in kits. My main reason is price. Personally, I feel these kits are WAY too expensive for what you get. I've always been a frugal person and enjoy shopping online or at my LNS for my thread and fabric. I would love to purchase the chart only from these companies but they do not offer them so I feel they are missing out at getting extra dollars for their product. So be it. I agree also about the color choices not always being to my liking and I really enjoy "personalizing" a chart. Sometimes I will change everything about the colors to go with decor or if it's for a gift, etc. I read a lot of stitching blogs and there are several that seems to do nothing but kits. That's great if you can afford them. I can't but even if I could I'd still "do it my way". I would like these companies to be more "flexible" and give us a choice of either a kit or just the chart. Since they don't, then there are a lot of other companies that make gorgeous patterns so I don't feel too bad for not being able to buy their kits.:)
ReplyDeleteI totally agree. These designers are missing out on a huge segment of the market by only allowing their charts to be sold as "kitted". In a time where many designers are getting out of the business because of the tough economy, you would think they would want to do everything they could to gain customers.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about kits and very rarely buy them. Typically I don't like the fabric included and my biggest pet peeve is when they only include enough floss to complete the project (like just a yard or so) but price it like they're including entire skeins! And I'm not crazy about all the charms and embellishments that are included sometimes either.
ReplyDeleteI almost always make substitutions with my projects.
I agree with you too Edgar. There are designs out there that I would love to have, but the cost of a complete kit is sometimes out of the budget. I think that they feel their sales will be better by offering everything. However, for the stitcher's pocket it may not be better. Not to mention the shops who purchase these and eventually lose money because they have to mark them down. I have just recently got on the bandwagon of choosing my own colors to match my decor or just for my own liking. Some brands of floss and fabric I don't like, so money is wasted...who can afford that these days?! Maybe if we let the designers know how we feel, they will listen and think about all of their customers and not a select few.
ReplyDeleteOh Edgar I feel your pain! I too have notices a lot more things going to kits.My sister and I have talked about this many times. Makes one feel like their creativity is being taken away . If you want the chart bad enough, you have to buy the kit.By the time you do that and pay that price, are you going to have money left over to use the fabric and floss of your choice, maybe but a lot of times you feel 'forced' to use what came in the kit because of the money that you forked over for it. I don't know about you , but I have also noticed that at times on these 'kits' there seems to be a mysterous $3,$4,$5, or more amount added on from what everything would be individually. My question is for what? For the few minutes that it took them to put the thing together?? It does get aggirvating doesn't it? Chart/thread packs are becoming more and more unappealing to me, probably from the aggrivation alone.I have to agree with Carol G too about buying charts piece by piece .I got a little bit aggrivated when Bent Creek started that. It wasn't too bad then, but now it's getting out of hand. We stitchers must stitch so what's a body to do? sigh...
ReplyDeleteI grumble right along with you, Edgar!
ReplyDeleteI do understand that there are going to be a number of people that love the kits for their convenience, but I'd have to think that that's the minority, not the majority these days. And there's always an alternative for them.. any LNS that I know, whether a brick and mortar or online, would be MORE than willing to kit up a project. More often than not the kits come with too little floss, and the fabric is sized to the designer's taste in margins. Depending upon the size of the project I like 3" on each size for a bit of wiggle room and ease of framing. I've had too many fabric pieces from kits that only allowed 1" on each side. Yikes!
You'd also think that it would save the designer some time in kitting the darned things together.
Don't get me started on the selling one piece of a design at a time trend! There's one pretty popular designer that has started designing things with 6-12 squares that are 2x2 each... and each 2x2 square is being sold for at least $4!!! If people would stop to think I'm sure they'd never pay $48 for the entire project... but some do. I think it's insane.
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ReplyDeleteI too like to be able to choose my fabrics and threads.
ReplyDeleteIt would be nice if the designers would offer a design both ways. Or if the fabric is part of the kit, to offer it three ways -- I don't like using certain counts of fabric and so that often excludes me from a design. I find it regrettable as well the whole trend. On the other hand, some people do like having things pre-kitted for them. Which is why I'd like to be offered the choice! :D (I'm going to have to get those Richard Burton movies and watch them. Happy b'day Richard!)
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSorry for the deleted post: too many typos..one really must remember to put one's specs on before typing lol
ReplyDeleteNope...you are perfectly within your rights to get onto a soapbox on your own blog! It is yours after all and we don't have to read it lol
What a shame: most designers I know offer the option of chart only or kitted out chart. No one size fits all so they should give us the choice. Have you thought of contacting the designer and asking for a chart only option? I have done that in the past and it worked out great!
Edgar, I totally agree with you! I think that my pet peeve with the kits is the fabric. I usually don't like the fabric in them and so I skip the whole thing. Which is a shame. If I had the choice of a chart only I would do it. And of course then my stash would be enough to get me through two lifetimes!! So maybe it is a good thing that they don't offer both!! LOL!!!
ReplyDeleteFirst off...love the ornie you received in your last post! Very pretty!
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you about the kits! There are a few kits out there that I like, but don't care for the fabric or some of the color choices. Plus, sometimes, like you, I already have the threads it calls for and don't want to have a huge pile of more thread. I end up resorting to ebay to find the chart, which, in the end, doesn't help the local market or the designer. Sigh!
Several years back I worked at a needlework store. We had a designer come in the store. One of her pieces had been stitched up by a customer and was on display. The customer had personalized the piece and changed a few of the colors. I thought the designer was going to go ballistic! She was livid that someone would have the audacity to change her color choices!!! That wasn't how she designed it and she knew better! She was a designer! I kid you not!!! It was crazy! While she is the designer, I feel that stitching, like other art, is interpretive and up to the individual person. Maybe a lot of designers don't see it that way. Or maybe they are just "in a deal" with the thread of fabric company. Who knows?!
I'll see you and raise you: I think ALL cross stitch designs should be available as (ideally instant) digital downloads. It's nice to say "Support your LNS", but it's a big world and thanks to the 'net we're all part of it now. Following things like the Needlepoint Mary Wigham SALs should let us know that there is a whole world of overseas stitchers; do we really want to "force" them to pay expensive export shipping (on top of the often already high price of this pursuit) to send their goods through uncertain customs' offices?
ReplyDeleteI'm fully in agreement with you too Edgar. As you know I like to stitch on very high count fabric with silk threads. As others have stated in a lot of kits there is usually not enough fabric to play with and sometimes not enough threads to finish a piece and how annoying it can then be to track down a specific make/colour. I saw a lovely design in a shop in Paris and did not buy it as I would have changed both fabric and threads and the kit was expensive enough as it was! I certainly would not entertain a chart that came with a separate price for each piece of the chart.
ReplyDeleteEdgar, as you know you are not alone in your opinions on "kits". I feel the same as you don't get me wrong. In trying to answer your frustration and debate, I think that some of the reason is that of convience for some stitchers and the lack of creativity by many. I seem to ride the fence, I am highly creative but sometimes I like a design just as it was created by the designer. Sometimes a project just has a certain look that I want.
ReplyDeleteIn regard to kits, perhaps it is due to the increasing decline of of needlework shops. It seems like to me that in the past everytime I found a new needlework store(and not a newly opened shop) that it would 'close' within the year. It has gotten to a point almost that I don't want to love a shop because I will curse it to close.
I think that it also goes along with the rise of large chain stores like Micheals and HobbyLobby that do not market to creative linen stitchers that have ruined the market in some ways. (another can of worms to open later)I also wonder if it is due to the fact that they think their design will get noticed and promoted easier in shops and more likely to sell and they make money along with the shop.
I agree completely. Kits are waay overpriced--even on eBay I have noticed recently that more people are selling kits rather than just charts. Combine floss and fabric with an out-of-print chart and the price skyrockets right out of my range. I far prefer to have a choice in the matter.
ReplyDeleteOver here in Europe, it's often difficult to get something that's not in a kit .... It seems to just be the custom or something. I asked about it at one LNS in Belgium and the lady said, "why would you want to go out and buy all those threads seperately?" She couldn't believe I already had all the floss I'd ever need. ;)
ReplyDeleteWhat I'd like to hear is a response from designers. WHY the shift (in US markets) to kits? And why can't the same design be offered both as a kit and as a chart? That way, people who don't have a floss stash or who are new to cross stitching or whatever could buy what they need in one packet, but the rest of us could enjoy stitching the design using our own choice of fabric, floss, etc. Designers????
In response to another comment asking why patterns aren't available as PDFs or other instant downloads, I've wondered about that myself. Shipping overseas usually begins at $10 or $11. Anyway, I was told that it's because people commit copyright fraud much easier with the electronic charts - they don't think twice about just forwarding it on to a friend, for example. Has anyone else heard other reasons?
Thanks for opening up a really interesting discussion!
I think the best would be for designers to produce two packets,one chart only and one complete with linen,threads etc so we could choose.Also as I am really for recycling we have so much stash and extra threads and we should use them up on charts that have no treads.
ReplyDeleteI was amazed to see my name on your page about my asking to see your Christmas ornaments of previous years! It felt as if I was chosen for a giveaway!I felt excited thank you.You do pay attention to your comments and that's very nice of you!Happy stitching!
Edgar, I enjoy reading blog posts where the author is willing to share their opinions about stitching topics. I understand your reaction to being forced to purchase a kit because that is the only option available. I prefer purchasing charts and kitting up my projects. Many times I will convert the recommended fibers to my favorite silks. I also enjoy purchasing a kit now and again. It's nice to just be able to grab the project and sit down and get stitching. The best of both worlds would be for designers to offer both the kits and the option of chart only purchase.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI, too, agree with you. I never buy kits. I have to stitch on 28 ct. due to my eyesight, even with that I use a lighted magnifier. I, also, have tons of fabric and floss. Almost with every chart I do, I change something whether it's
ReplyDeletethe linen color or floss, etc.
So as for prepackaged kits, we all
know - it's all about the money....
I feel two ways about it. Sometimes I like having everything all ready for me and right there in the package. This, I will admit, was more true when I didn't have an LNS that I could wonder down to when I want to change things up. And maybe that is who these kitted up bits are for. Those who don't have the easy option of changing thing around.
ReplyDeleteThat said. I do really wish they would also offer the chart. There are a few bits out there they I will not buy as, like you, I want to change things and dont want to spend all that money all over again. I wanna just get the chart and do my own thing. I wanna be able to play with threads at my LNS and do it MY way. And I rarely like the fabric put in kits. :P
AMEN!!! I also feel that many of the kits are quite cost prohibitive, especially when you consider a change in fiber or fabric. (Especially since I stitch most of my stuff on higher counts.) In fact,come to think of it, the only kits that I have used "as is" are ones from Shepherd's Bush.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if it is the designers who come up with this or if it is the distributers. Maybe our grumblings will intice the designers to offer both a "kitted" version and a "chart only" version. I'd bet they would sell more that way....
I agree! I think I know which Christmas piece you are referring to and I also love it but not the price and the fabric it comes with ! So I will wait until someone sells the "pattern only" after they are done with it.
ReplyDeleteoops...that last one by "Anonymous" was me...Lori! I can't remember my Google account password!
ReplyDeleteTout à fait d'accord avec toi pour les kits! C'est notre touche personnelle de pouvoir choisir la toile et les fils! J'aimerais que les créateurs proposent un système comme celui-ci:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.broderie.net/
Cela serait plus accessible.
En français mais j'ai pu me rendre compte que tu le comprenais parfaitement!
Gosh, you've sparked a discussion!I do agree that it's a shame to limit creativity by making a pattern available as a kit only. However, I think you, and others who have such a good eye for colour, are more confident and experienced about swapping and changing. I worry about making expensive mistakes and ending up going back to get exactly what was listed anyway - though I suppose it's one way to build up a thread stash.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Margaret who's commented that it would be nice if there were three options to buy - pattern only, pattern and threads and complete kit with fabric.
In my opinion you wouldn't be offending anyone but giving feedback that I would hope the designers would want to hear. You took the words right out of my mouth by saying you would find the chart only on eBay. That is exactly what I would do if I liked a design but felt the all inclusive kit was too expensive. I have also found some great charts that start out at an expensive price on eBay for a very good price. Personally I think they should offer the design both ways - some stitchers like to get the chart only and use their creativity while others like to have the entire kit. Another thought, if you never did find just the chart on eBay you could always buy the kit and sell the linen and threads from that on eBay to get part of your money back. But, if you're like me, the initial outlay of the $ can be difficult some times.
ReplyDeleteI am so glad that many other stitchers agree with what you have said and I know I strongly agree along with you as well. Without naming any designers there are 2 designs that I would LOVE to have but when you add up the price of each individual floss pack each project cost just over $100.00! That's absolutely nuts, I found both charts recently on ebay for a whole heck of a lot less. I too like to have creative freedom to decide what I want to do with my project. I wish these certain designers would stop and just sell the charts.
ReplyDeleteStitchers of the World, Unite!
ReplyDeleteMay I just second a big AMEN to your discussion? I don't really have an opinion on the topic, actually, but I DO think it's interesting when people who make stuff actually pay attention to the people who buy stuff and then...gasp...give them what they want!
How freakin' hard is it to offer the chart only and then a full kit as a second option? I mean, come on...I'm a box of rocks and even I could figure that one out!
You go, Edgar! Maybe we should have an election or something to make you our King?
I'd be interested in what the designers have to say. They must be able to make more money off it--and really once you remove the distributor's take, and the shop owner's take, and the costs for getting the project from them to us the price of a chart (say $10) I bet they're not making that much money no matter how many they sell. Frankly, I like my designers to eat. I'll buy a kit if I love it. I figure it will all work out in the end.
ReplyDeleteI'll just sit right on the fence and say that they should be available in all combinations: chart; chart and fibers; chart, fibers, and fabric.
ReplyDeleteGrumble on my friend! Excellent topic. I have been drooling over a certain kit for years. The prices is over $100 and I know I have more then enough supplies here to kit it up myself. I would love to get my hands on just the chart, but so far no luck.
ReplyDeleteI agree as well. I wish the designers would give us the option...chart only or kitted up. I often have many of the threads required and usually the fabric too in my stash. Or maybe I'd like to use a different fabric or threads.Sometimes. especially for a really large piece, the price is just prohibitive for me. If the chart were sold separately I could buy it and get started at least...adding more threads as I go along without having to buy everything in one lump purchase. I am very grateful to the stitchers out there who are willing to sell just the charts when they have finished with them. All in all , I think there are many designs not being bought by as many stitchers as there might be, if they were just offered as a chart.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I am not a fan of kits either. It often seems like kit is synonymous with lesser quality thread, and yuck aida.....I do wish they would get off this kit bandwagon. The only argument I have heard for it, is the overseas markets....where it is harder for them to chase down the individual floss, or fluctuating markets make a stable kit price more acceptable. But this doesn't make sense in the US markets.
ReplyDeleteI too am also tired of these small portion-released very month series too. The price when you add it all together is outrageous, and I will pass them up due to that, and the fact that I don't have the time to chase down, remember to order all the parts. Yeah I know I could go auto...but then I am adding shipping every month, on top of the cost of each chart. No thanks.I also tend to like instant gratification, I want the whole thing in my hot little hands at once!
I agree with you. Sometimes I don't like the color of the fabric that is chosen. I also have a lot of threads that i like to use what i already have on hand.
ReplyDeleteFirst let me say I agree with you as well!! People like myself who are on a tight budget these days need all the help they can get. What if their chartpak includes floss I already have? What if I don't like the fabric? I really think the designers are losing this way, as well as the stitcher. On another board I'm on we were talking about the ones with several charts that have to be purchased to complete the design. To me that just seems like the designer being greedy, if I may say so!
ReplyDeleteI was just complaining about Jenny Bean Halloween the other day. Now that design come on it's own - but the model is stitched with a limited edition thread pack. I loathe limited editions of thread, so I refuse to buy them. Period.
ReplyDeleteAnd there is a Christmas(land) design out there that I dearly want. But right now I'm refusing to buy it, because it's nearly $20 per part, comes in four parts. And oh, doesn't include the fabric either. $80, and it still isn't ready to stitch. Never mind the fabric, possibly buttons/beads, and then finishing for a piece that would only be up for a short time each year.
If they had been released as chart only - even at $8-$10 a piece I would have bought them.
So yes Edgar, ditto.
I suspect it is not necessarily the designers who are making the decision to package the kits; I'm betting it's a joint venture among the floss and fabric manufacturers and the designers. I'd love to have the inside scoop on who approaches whom about a business arrangement like that. Does any designer want to comment on that? The more sophisticated and experienced we become as stitchers, the more we are able to choose for ourselves. I feel quite free to alter designs where I want, and to substitute fibers and fabrics based on what I like. I have very strong feelings about particular fabrics and flosses, so I tend to avoid the kits. The one exception I'd make is that the more expensive and difficult-to-find specialty fibers that are used in Shepherd's Bush kits are best purchased in kit form; I feel as if they do not take advantage of the stitchers, and to buy separate skeins of those fibers would be prohibitive. The height of ridiculousness on a kit to me was when I emailed a designer who'd kitted up her design as a sewing box with sewing gadgets and whatnot--the whole thing cost close to $200. I asked to buy the chart at a premium, and the answer was "no way, I will only sell it as kitted." Her choice. My choice: I don't have to buy the design with box, or any of her other designs either.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you 100% and as I was reading I was thinking to myself - what REALLY gets me even more are the multi-chart designs! And then you mentioned it, too. I agree with Tracey on this one, I think it comes down to greed. I won't mention any names but I find $168 for a cute, primitive syle pieced design, kitted in cotton, a bit hard to swallow. Of course designers can do what they like but I find it really off putting for some reason. Luckily we can vote with our dollars.
ReplyDeleteWhat bugs me far more than kitted things (and that bugs me too, sometimes), is the individually priced charts/threadpacks for one project. BC and LHN come to mind. By the time you're done purchasing all the individual charts to complete one project, you've spent a fortune on what will not, in MHO, stand the test of time like a more traditional sampler will. Now THAT really gets my goat!
ReplyDeleteWell, it sounds like most of us agree that we should have an option to buy only the chart. I also prefer to make my own fabric and thread choices. It would be great if we could just get all the designers to read your post and all the comments.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that the price is ridiculous when a pattern is released in small portions. I guess if we all stopped buying them and let the designers know why maybe they would listen.
Edgar, thanks for this discussion today, it's nice to know so many of us feel the same way.
I am in agreement as well. Aside from lack of choice, I'd like to add that the people who kit the floss don't allow any extra floss for mistakes (restitching), and don't always double check that everything listed is included. I purchased a "chartpack" with chart, NPI silks, and charm/button pack at a premium price. I got my own choice of fabric, sat down all set to stitch - and then I TRIED to sort out the threads. Some of the colors were very similar, and from the inventory on the back of the chart, I found I was one length of thread short of ???? color. I don't know if I'm missing a strand of a color that I have, or one color completely. I'd love to contact the designer for the missing floss, but my LNS doesn't carry NPI, so I have nothing to compare the strands in my kit with to identify what I (don't) have. Very frustrating. It has been over a year since my purchase, and I've since used the fabric for other projects. I doubt I'll ever stitch this one, even though I love it.
ReplyDeleteAnother fence sitter here. I wish they had the convenience of both. Either just the chart and/or the "kitted - specialty buttons and beads " chart. I too prefer picking my own fabric count and floss brand.
ReplyDeleteI have to say that I only buy kits from one designer, Shepherd's Bush. Their kits while pricey usually contain silk and the fabrics are always gorgeous. It would cost me too much $$$ to kit up something with silks that I don't necessarily already own.
ReplyDeleteHowever, having said all that...I really really dislike buying charts with threadpacks included. There is one designer who does this (but I think it's not happening as much now) and I've ended up with multiples of the same thread because they use the same colours over & over. Very annoying!
I completely agree with you. I rarely ever buy a kit and in most cases the reason why I don't do it is either the price and/or the fabric that comes with it. I rarely ever use it but prefer using my own fabric choice. The only things I love to be included are charms just because I can't get them here.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you commented about this because it's been bothering me as well. I think they should be offered with the option of just the chart for those of us who like to use existing stash or change things up. And the issue of the multiple chart packs to complete one design is really getting out of hand. Thank goodness for e-bay.
ReplyDeleteHere, here Edgar...you hit the nail right on the head!! I HATE KITS! They are a waste of money for 98% of us. New stitchers, who haven't been collecting stash for ions, may find them to be just what they need...but not me! One of my favorite designers, The Heart's Content, is an avid "kitter" and the prices are way over my $$ limit...and for that reason, I refuse to purchase many of her designs that I would LOVE to stitch...and that, my dears, is a crying shame! LOL! I don't mind a semi-kitted piece that calls for a hard to find embellishment, such as The Drawn Thread does from time to time...but this business of packaging it all together and charging a small fortune is outrageous! It's highway robbery, I tell ya! Oooh, Uhmmm, sorry gotta little out of control there! :O)
ReplyDeleteMan, that felt good!! Thank you, Edgar!
In all the ranting and raving, did we forget to wish Richard a Happy Birthday??!! Sorry...HAPPY BIRTHDAY RICHARD!!!!!! YEAAAAAA!! (Uhmmm, is that Rico??)
HAPPY STITCHIN!
Terri
I am rather ambivalent about kits in that there are a few that are good such as Shepherd's Bush or the Accent series from Periwinkle Promises. Sometimes it is nice just to pick it up and run! I take more issue with series of charts which I never purchase any more if I can help it. These are just too expensive. Downloads are okay but I kind of like going to the shop to actually feel things before I purchase them.
ReplyDeleteMary in Tennessee
Sorry if my english is not correct but it isn't my native languages
ReplyDeleteLet's look at the point of view the company who sells the products.
For example you buy a kit that is called "The lion". The kit is included with fabric, silks and additional stuff (buttons, charms etc). If a factory makes for example 5000 kits, they need to buy the stuff in bulk and will save money on that. Say this kits cost 35 dollars and the products they put in are ~10 dollars (designer fee + materials) this will generated a profit of 25 dollars. If they only sell the chart for 10 dollars, they will make less profit, because you are not buying the additional material.
Have you ever noticed that if you buy a kit, on the chart the colorcodes are never written. You get a silk but it never says it DMC, Anchor, Mandera etc. The reason: they want to protect their product for copying. It is the same like downloading MP3, the maker doesn't receives anything for it if you copy it.
So my conclusion is
a) they make more money by selling kits
b) they don't want us to copy chart.
But I think their is a solution to meet half way
a) When the chart is "new" only sell it in a kit. The company gets the change to make the profit on the product
b) when the chart is "last season" create the leaflet/chart version next to the kit version. If a chart is popular it can change in to a "cash cow". They make easy money because the product already brought up the profit and still gives money without doing much for it.
For some us it means to wait a year, but don't you have already to much on your to do list?
Re: the prepackaged kits that leave you no choices at all...to your comments I say "amen"! Took the words right out of my mouth - only you said it nicer than I've recently said it. Thanks for your terrific blog. I don't comment frequently but I read every post. It's always a pleasure to read.
ReplyDeleteThis has been really interesting reading. If I can't live without a piece (that happens so rarely), I'll buy the kit, even if I don't intend to stitch it as kitted. I'll probably be able to find another use for the fabric (usually the issue for me) and add any leftover fiber to my stash.
ReplyDeleteI love the choice we get when ordering from The Scarlet Letter. Almost always, a choice is given: chart only, chart with silk, chart with cotton.
A bit late in commenting, but I do agree with you regarding 'kits'. Though I love to purchase the Shepherd Bush 'kits', I have found that the price has become a bit out of my budget. Saying that, SB is probably the only 'kit' project that I buy.
ReplyDeleteI love to change fibers and colors to match a room decor or for a gift/event. My stash is quite healthy as I worked and once again am working in a LNS. But I have always maintained my DMC inventory.
Several mentioned doing both the kit and the chart at the same time, I think that is a great idea, it covers it for all, those who do not have the means to kit things up for lack of a LNS and for those who have a LNS or a great stash and can also internet shop.
Great topic Edgar - do love to read your blog.
On a personal note - DD has signed us up for NETFLEX - I am becoming a TV/Movie junkie!!! Oh what to do!!
Roberta